INTERVIEW:
Question 1
What will be the place and role of theology within what is often, and we might say
usually, represented as a technologically-oriented future?
Answer
This is a very important question. We need to be sure that we know what we are talking
about when we ask it. People are often quite vague when they talk about theology, and
think its like their religious feelings or a sort of abstract spirituality. I want
to honour the tradition of theology and theological education as fully as possible, so
lets be sure we know what we are talking about. Theology has been defined by
"reflection on religious experience". That probably conceals more than it
reveals. An older definition is simply "the science of God", or again, "the
queen of the sciences". Theology lives in particular theologies, just as human life
only lives in particular lives. So I think it is very important to be scientific when we
are talking about theology, particularly theology in a scientific age.
Although theology is called in general "the science of God",
what that actually means is that it is the ordered exposition of doctrines that touch upon
particular ways in which humankind has experienced God, such as in the incarnation of
Christ, or in the coming of the Holy Spirit, orin Judaismin the rescuing of
the Israelites, andin Islamin the coming of the Prophet and the development of
the idea of a Spiritual civilisation, and so on. Theology therefore lives in theologies
like people live in houses, and when we are studying the place of theology in a scientific
world we want to honour that science by being as scientific as possible. That includes
exactitude of the kind I have just said in my definition; also completeness. Its
part of the work of a scholar, and theologians certainly should be scholars, as are
scientists, to know what we are talking about, and to be as complete as possible. So there
are many kinds of theology: there is philosophical theology, that establishes a
relationship between theology and philosophy, there is systematic theology, that orders
the doctrines. There are also some newer kinds of theology: there is existential theology,
there is liberation theology, that deals more with the urgent, Marxist approach. The
premise, translated from Marxist philosophy that philosophy should change the world rather
than understand it, translates here into theology. And this is an interesting opportunity
for theologies interested in science. But if theology is going to have a place in a
scientific world it has to have some affinity for that scientific world. Somebody once
said, "a roof that has no affinity for the sky is always in danger of falling
in". And this has happened to a great extent in theology since the time of Galileo.
In the time of the Galileo incident, even though the present Pope has apologised for the
treatment of Galileo, it is well known that there are series of remarks, some of them
apocryphal, but others conveying an important truth about the schism between science and
religion, that when Galileo showed the facts through his telescope he was told that
couldnt be so because that conflicted with an existing theological cosmology, and
when people were invited to look though the telescope they "do not confuse me with
facts when my mind is made up".
So when we talk about the place of theologies in a scientific world we
are dealing with an entrenched resistance to it. That is a sad story but it is not the end
of the story because we have a series of movements - science and religion in dialogue,
science and theology in dialogue - so there is scope for a scientific theology. But
theologies also live in religious communities. There is an ancient saying lex orandi,
lex credendi, "the law of praying is the law of believing", which symbolises
the fact that doctrines grow out of religious experience, and religious experiences to
some extent come out of the wilderness, but also come out of formative communities. So
your question translates into a different question, in theological syntax, and that is,
what is the role of the churches, of religious communities, synagogues, mosques, and so
on, in the scientific world of tomorrow. That is a question that can be answered very
practically. The work I am doing in the University of Washington and elsewhere is to try
and create science education programs within churches. That means changing our thinking
about the particular branch of theology called "ecclesiology", or the study of
the nature of the Church. The word ecclesiology comes from ancient Greek: ekklesia,
meaning "called out of", so the religious community or the home of theology is a
place that is supposed to have come out of the cosmos and brings sacred values, into the
world, in this case the world of science and technology. If the churches do not get
involved in things like computers, artificial intelligence, genetic engineering, space
travel and so on, than it wont have a role to play. So, your question about the
place of theology in a scientific world translates into an invitation to churches to
change their thinking about science, and in fact thats easy to do because the very
notion of science only means "knowledge", so the sacred science which is
theology here has the opportunity to impinge in a redemptive way upon particular works of
science and technology. With my students at the University of Washington, I am reasoning
analogically from the periodic table of the elements in chemistry to the periodic table of
industries. And I say, theologies live in churches, businesses live in industries. There
is an industrial side to science, there is a political side to science, and the churches,
or any sacred communities, have a message to bring to this particular zones of culture:
namely, what is the moral core of scientific method and scientific results? We can look
particularly at things like the Y2K problem, the millennium bug, and say: I wonder how
that could have happened? So what begins in metaphysics ends in politics: for instance,
how can religious communities get involved in something like the Y2K problem? The answer
is that they can get involved in many ways.
Question 2
How will ethics be affected by the new technologies of communication, and how might the
Technology Revolution end up affecting our very idea of ethics and the ethical?
Answer
Id like to make the same point here I made when speaking about theology first of
all; its of the first importance to know what we are talking about when we talk
about ethics. And frankly thats quite a rare achievement, even sometimes I think in nethicists.
Se we take an opportunity here to make sure we know what the subject is. Ethics is
traditionally a branch of philosophy, along with metaphysics, epistemology, and so on, and
it deals with the theory of conduct, and also character. Now, the word ethics derives in
one of its derivations from the word ethos, an ancient Greek word that is quite
complex but which means "character", in the same way that we have a character or
a stamp on a coin. So the ethics of a situation is its moral identity. Its a very
important point to make. The study of ethics is the study of moral identity, of character,
of conduct, of the principles of living, and so on. Some people have been so unwise as to
say that science deals with what is, and ethics deals with what ought to be. If you go
down that road - which I think is a fallacious and erroneous road, because of the split
between science and religion - you end up with a series of antinomies as Immanuel Kant
would say, or you construct your moral living in terms of a series of dilemmas, and often
that drains peoples energy away, and leaves them pretty much where they started. If
we consider the science of ethics as a progressive as well as a normative science, we may
ask what is the subject matter of that, and it is of course human character, human
conduct, human living.
There are both pure and applied parts of this; for instance, when we
think about questions of so called pure ethics, we are thinking about things like "do
we have responsibility towards future generations"; thats something debated by
ethicists today and its quite an important question. There are also questions of
applied ethics, however, two of which I am on: medical ethics and financial ethics. With
questions like, "if there are three people who need a kidney transplant, who gets
it?" Theres an ethical dilemma here. But I think this is the foundation of the
subject, when I urge people to move away from the idea of ethics as dilemma to the science
of the advancement, of our expression of ourselves as moral beings, and ethical agents.
Why do I think the technology of communication and so on have brought a powerful
opportunity to the world of ethics? Because ethics like any science has to express itself
through some kind of medium of communication and behind that medium of communication is a
philosophy, a philosophy with categories, as Aristotle, Kant and others would say. We
cant speak without these categories.
Now, up until the nineteenth century it was said that the whole of
philosophy was footnotes to Plato. What they had in mind was that notions like
"substance", and "accident" and "essence", and so on, were
the stock in-trade of philosophical discussion. But in the coming of various people,
Alfred North Whitehead, Bertrand Russell, H. G. Wells, and others (and this connects some
of the futures movement), it became more and more clear that the scientific world from the
Industrial Revolution on, in fact back to the sixteenth century Epistemological
Revolution, has been a world of change. In books like Process and Reality and Science
and the Modern World Whitehead substituted systematically the idea of the process as
the cardinal metaphysical category. This leads, by a rather complex road, to our present
situation: what is the ethics of process, and how does that touch upon the technology of
communication, and vice versa? One very simple thing for us to understand is the ethics of
speed. Everyone can understand the need for urgency. I want to introduce the notion of
vector here, vector means "force with direction", or "speed with direction.
I have been working in the field of vector philosophy as an approach to ethics and
communication. In vector based ethics we have ways to touch people almost instantaneously,
to be connected with people all over the world, to enlarge the collective consciousness of
the human race.
Therefore, the collective intelligence that we can achieve with multiple, simultaneous
communication, virtual communities and so on, are ways in which ethical urgency has been
enlarged by technologies of communication. The issues of privacy, for instance, secrecy,
disclosure, and so on as ethical dilemmas are things, I think, that are resolved by the
free play of moral consciousness across the Internet. So there is a great opportunity here
for the technologies of communication to potentiate ethical reflection and in that way to
help people to understand the answer to a very fundamental ethical question, which is:
"who is my neighbour?" Perhaps this is the most fundamental of them all, if you
believe in personalistic ethics which is the idea that ethics is about human
relationships. That is a particular school of ethics but it is one that is very pertinent
to our time. So, I would say that ethics in itself is not affected by technologies of
communication but the very categories with which we do our thinking can be changed and
enlarged, even improved, I would dare to say, by technology.
Question 3
Within a cultural paradigm that privileges technology as determining our very future, in
what way can we orientate, on an ethical basis, the deployment of a technological future?
Answer
I think of course when we deploy something, we want to know to what end. Theology and
ethics and philosophy in general have a shared interest in the study of the goals of
existence. Theology and philosophy lead us to the notion of the absolute, they share that
high horizon, but almost the most elementary schools of philosophical analysis help us to
analyse what we are doing as a series of stratified actions leading towards higher goals.
Some people think that the Aristotelian legacy of so-called final causes, or the idea that
we work towards ends, is defunct, and yet it is hardly true because we know that
businesses, governments, civilisations, are all moving towards something. Here is the
proof: no chief executive officer, whether it be of the country, or government, or
business, would stand up and say: "we have arrived, we have arrived at perfection,
ladies and gentlemen, here is my annual report, we have made it." The idiom of all
leaders is future-oriented, goal-oriented. So, if we ask ourselves about the ethical basis
of the technological future, one of the first things that the ethicist would do is to say:
to what end? That reminds me of the story of a young American who went to the land of my
birth, England, and looked out of the railway carriage, and he said to a man who was with
him in the carriage: "We could put the whole of this little country in my state of
Kansas". And the Englishman said: "For what purpose, sir?".
The great goals of civilisation - healing, prosperity, the cultivation
of beauty, and so on - are the goals toward which we will want to deploy a technological
future. Going back to my earlier point: lets be sure we know what we are talking
about. There is a prevalent assumption that technology is something that is happening to
us, that we are on rails going inexorably towards a technological future. Thats
simply a false analysis of the human situation. And of some of our choices. Moreover, we
need to be sure we know what we are talking about when we talk about technology. The word techne,
from which we get technology, is a very complex, subtle word. In ancient times it meant
craft, it implied something artistic, creative, manufactured. So, actually, technology is
the offspring of two parents, science and art. This is rarely understood, it is very
important to people to understand the artistic implications of technology, not only in
industry but in crafts, and when we speak of crafts we speak of art.
So, if we would speak of the ethical basis of the technological future,
it would be first of all in the cultivation of goals implied by the study of ethics, and
those goals would be the great goals of human existence: liberation from pain and illness,
liberation from ugliness and squalor, liberation from poverty, for example. The ethicist
can help in the deployment of things like computers and artificial intelligence towards
those ends by clarifying what the goals are, by mobilising moral consciousness and moral
energies in the way that I have said. And that has to be done in some sort of ethical
community, except in very rare cases of a sort of moral genius. But the technological
future is not only deployed by ethicists but also refined. As we study the goals, or
supposed goals, of human existence, we find often that they are radically incoherent. For
example, if you take the goal of the "thinking machine", and say, well, "is
that a person?", that turns out to be a set of very mixed scientific goals, of
varying quality, and the human quality of the technological future is something we can
work on by clarifying our ethical consciousness.
A couple of cases in point here: one, as I say, is the Y2K problem. We
have arrived at this partly because of the incoherence of society, where different
branches of society like ethics, religion, science, art, politics, are all pulling in
different directions and not towards a common goal. So, ethical leaders can have a great
part to play in the sanctification, in the redemption of computer science.
One problem that everyone can understand is the future of the
automobile. What does the ethicist have to say about the automobile? A huge amount. I am
work on something called "the social theory of the automobile", that takes as
its premise some of the following ideas. A car is a world, a cosmos. An automobile is a
continuing creation, and not just an event. And an automobile as a social reality can and
should express a whole hierarchy of human values. Anybody can look at their car right now
and say, "am I changing it day by day to suit my purposes, and do I even know what
they are. One way that we can affect the technology of the future is to affect our
journeys, and we can affect our journeys by affecting the technology that is setting our
journeys, namely cars. As we are talking around the world there are billions of automated
journeys going on; each of those is an occasion of moral excellence. So that is an example
that people can get into right away.
Question 4
When we deal with the issue of future and futurology we are presupposing an imperative
issue, the building of a preferable future. Can we therefore claim that ethics should be
seen as central to, or should claim a rightful role in, future studies?
Answer
I think, garbage in, garbage out. If we remove moral consciousness, and the systematic
ordering of values from our study of anything, I can tell you what the result is:
technically speaking, it is psychosis. A being that lacks a moral consciousness is a
sociopath, or a psychopath. Thats put in a very vivid way, but the same point can be
said more formally. If we are to study anything, including the future, we presumably want
to do so with our most luminous consciousness (with luminous coming from lumen,
light). If we are to study the past, or the present or the future, we want to equip
ourselves with the maximum strength of instruments. Everybody would laugh at a professor
who said, "I wont use a computer: paper and pencil is good enough for me".
In the same way, if somebody said: "I want to study the future with some virtues, but
not all", I think we could expect that the results would not be very great. If
somebody for example said: "Let me study the future, but I am going to leave out the
dimension of truth in my study, I am not looking for the truth", I think that we
would find, and that we would expect, the result would be that they wouldnt find
truth because they wouldnt be looking for it. If someone said, "I am going to
look for truth but not for goodness": again, they would be missing something. What if
they were looking for truth but not beauty? Well, they may find an ugly future.
We are the sum of our choices, and even our investigations of the
future are the sum of the cognitive choices that we make. Ethicists teach that behind
cognition and the moral foundation of consciousness, is a moral consciousness. This
implies, therefore, that future studies should have a moral foundation. The method,
therefore the ideal of futurist, and here we are moving to a central category of ethics,
namely the study and the pursuit of the ideal, the futurist who works with categories like
possible, preferable, and probable futures, has as the background and foreground of all
such searches the search for the ideal future. That is the very nature and grammar of the
ideal, the search of something that cannot be achieved, and yet were it not calling us we
would not even be looking for it. So here we have something very practical immediately,
and that is that futures studies can be conceived as the search for the possibility of an
ideal society and the road to it. And that fits with existential futures studies as well,
because instead of seeing the future as coming out as like an express train, instead,
existential philosophy shows us to be the sum of our choices. One of the first choices we
can make as futurists is to study the landscape of our consciousness as ethical reflectors
and as moral agents to study the possibility of ourselves as developers of the future.
So, the special calling of the ethical futurist is to articulate the
nature of the study of the ideal in the future. We need to think about apocalyptic
eschatology, and other approaches to the future that we may or may not reject. Therefore I
think that ethicists and futurists have to combine in studying scientific cosmology. John
Barrow and Frank Tipler in their book The Anthropic Cosmological Principle, which
appeared in 1988 out of Oxford University Press, lay out the whole long term future of
human evolution, which they see somewhat oddly I think as a self-programming automaton,
with computers taking over the world. That may be a barbarous idea from the point of view
of personalist ethics, but at least it is a study of the scientific future. Other authors
like Bertrand Russell in his book Icarus or the Future of Science have inquired
into whether a future civilisation could be truly scientific and yet endure. The ethicist
here is laying a foundation for thinking about the scientific future; that means we have
to bring cosmology, scientific cosmology, into our thinking.
Question 5
What role might be played by media and communication as a tool, an instrument for
underprivileged communities?
Answer
I think obviously one of the very practical roles of the media is to make sure that
underprivileged communities are reached, but for that the ethics of the media have to move
forward a step. Again, lets be clear that we know what we are talking about. One of
the things that moral reflection does in the study of media, and this is a little bit of
applied theology, is to think about - and this is a very exact phrase - what are the gods
of the media. What I mean by that is, and I am thinking here of the theologian Paul
Tillich and the notion of ultimate concern as a way of understanding theology: what is the
ultimate concern of mass media? Lets look at the worse of it first of all and then
see what good things can be said. Some people feel that the mass media specialise in some
of the following gods: titillation, prurience, sensationalism, voyeurism and a consumer
theory of knowledge. The worse case scenario is the couch-potato who voyeuristically
watches somebody elses house go up in flames and it has their own emotions simply
enflamed by the program but is left helpless. So in my point of view the media are
inculcating learned helplessness.
At the other extreme there is a medium of communication, and what is
communicated is opportunity and invitation. So here we see a theory of media that implies
an invitation to react, an extension of an opportunity, the very notion of knowledge, as
catalyst, as an exchange. If the underprivileged communities are going to be reached by
the mass media, they have to do so as the result of a change in heart on the part of the
media. I do not want to make it sound worse than it is: the role of the media is also to
highlight something and to inspire, and the people who are going to be inspired are young
people who can reverse the situation of underprivileged communities and go to them. For
example, mobile media - the idea of one person representing a sort of virtual newspaper -
can become an agent of news to underprivileged communities, so here we could develop the
picture of a sort of a cross between a Franciscan friar and a robot in their going to
underprivileged communities. But the goal of social development is that the
underprivileged will be changed into privileged. So the goal of the media, I think, is
first of all to exhibit that fractured state of society and to give to young people, or
media leaders and innovators, an opportunity to reach these people.
Question 6
Would you tell us about the organisation called The Religious Futurists, how it is
structured, how it works and what are its aims?
Answer
The Religious Futurists community is eighteen years old; we are celebrating our adulthood
this year. We came into existence like an electric spark leaping across a potential
difference, a potential difference being a gap between science and religion. On one level
we are a group of scholars who try to find an interface between futures studies and
religious studies. That works both ways: it means to bring religion into the future, and
it means to bring the future into religions. It means the study of futures as an
opportunity for moral agency; it means a vision of the churches of tomorrow as scientific
communities. This is a very powerful theme of our work. As far as operation is concerned,
we have branches in a few countries, we have an annual merit award, we have a web site,
www.wnrf.org, we work in a number of fields like science fiction and the development of
spiritual consciousness through that. Also, I am the Faculty advisor of the University of
Washington to our society called The Youth Futurist Academy, and the professional members
forum of the World Future Society. The Youth Futurist Academy is an expression of the
desire of professional futurists to train young people as futurists.
I want to end with a note of celebration and invitation. Our Youth
Futurist Academy is seeking to develop what we call "a million youth power
engine", a thousand participating cities, each having a thousand young people, to
train themselves as celebrators of the future with the skills to enter into the high-tech
world, in computers, the millennium bug, the development of cars, and the mass media of
the future. But to do so in a way that honours the best of ethics, the best of futures
studies, the best of science fiction, and religion. There are many issues for the Youth
Futurists to work on this way. For instance, what is the charter of ethics for outer
space?. Programmes like Star Trek raise interesting questions. For instance, there
are no ministers of religion in the future according to Star Trek. Possibly, God
doesnt exist in outer space, or in the future, but if thats a false statement
then some young people need to start showing us.
Years ago, I was commissioned by the Episcopal church to write a story about the first
chaplain on the moon. I am glad to say it was a woman. And a thing we always want to bring
in is feminist thinking, when we are thinking about future studies, and that tends to
emphasise compassion rather than dominion. And in all that I have said, I want to make it
clear that we are looking at a world of ethics including Tao ethicsI personally am
working on a book called The Tao of Driving, which looks at the ethics of the Tao
and not just Judeo-Christian ethics, in thinking about the future. So our religious
communities have to be adept, and fluent, in the ethics of Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism,
Shinto, etc. looking at the integration of science and religion and so on within
communities. The final purpose of a religious futurist group is to rid the human race of
Neo-Platonism, and thinking that philosophy is about ideas, and producing a theology of
action. Because our theology is a theology of persons, we see religious futures as the
building of communities of the future of wise beings, young and old. I have another
program of senior citizens: I have a seventy year old jazz singer working with me in
Seattle, who is going to produce a manifesto for the Wise Beings of Tomorrow empowering
older people to mobilise their wisdom. Religious Futurists are also against ageism,
whether it be disempowering the old, or disempowering the young. The goal of the Religious
Futurists system is to mobilise ethical energies in all age groups, in all communities and
to maximise the amount of operative wisdom in the world.
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