INTERVIEW:
Question 1
You have been a visionary because your company was the first to have the slogan, "The
network is the computer". When did you start to think in these terms?
Answer
I wish we were visionary. I don’t think that’s the right word. For many
years we were considered very stubborn. In fact, even today we’re considered stubborn
because we don’t do PCs, we don’t do mainframes, we don’t do applications
and that sort of thing. We’ve always been very committed to the whole concept that
network computing is the way to bring people together, to share information with and to
communicate, and the way for the world to build upon the cumulative knowledge of the rest
of the world by publishing information. Even this interview gets published on the Web and
becomes part of the cumulative knowledge that’s available to anybody who is networked
and on the Web. This is the power of the idea of networking that we have been committed to
for almost 15 years now. It doesn’t seem new to us but it seems like a new deal to a
lot of people. It doesn’t seem visionary to us either, it just seems obvious.
Question 2
Do you think that the 1980s were the decade of the personal computer, while the 1990s are
the networking decade ? What kind of change is there now in personal computers? Must the
model, the architecture, of the PC be reinvented?
Answer
I don’t think you take the computer model of the PC with a huge 32 MB, 32 bit
multitasking, multithreaded operating system with all the bells and whistles and ten
million lines of code of Microsoft Office running on a five-million transistor
microprocessor with its own file system, disk drive, CD, floppy - this big, huge personal
mainframe - you don’t re-architect that to become a network computer. You start all
over. You start with a Java chip, you add the Java-virtual machine, and a Java-based
browser environment and you connect that to the network. That’s a whole new
architecture that leaves behind the legacy architecture but brings forward the PC user.
The way we bring them forward is by putting the Java-based browser on the old legacy PC so
that you can operate in this new Java network computing model without having to throw away
your old PC and as you want to evolve and upgrade you move to the new Java client as
opposed to doing the old PC. I don’t see Microsoft and Intel re-architecting their
current business to work with the PC or the NC, the network computer. I see that as
continuing on in the same way we still sell mainframes out there in the marketplace.
Question 3
So we are going towards a kind of a "virtualization" of the use of
computing and a use of resources where the hardware is less important than software?
Answer
I think the hardware is becoming more important than the software. It is
becoming more available and more aggressively priced and more ubiquitously available.
Hardware is going to be absolutely key. Software is useless without the client
environment, and software is useless without the storage capabilities and the distribution
capabilities of the server environment, so in fact hardware companies are becoming very,
very important. There’s really three major components: you have the content providers
of the software applications and the actual content, you have the service providers like
the telcos and the cable companies in the RMIS department, who are providing the data dial
and Web tone environments, and then you have the equipment providers like SUN who are
providing the desktop and server and networked equipment to allow you to provide data and
tone to the consumers and the users. We’re very focused on the equipment side of the
house and the telcos are very focused on the service side of the house and the software
and content providers like Disney and Microsoft are very focused on the content provider
side of the house.
Question 4
But you said that when Java was born, James Gosling was working on a set-top box so what
is the origin of this new language? How did SUN arrive at the concept of Java?
Answer
We have a lot of software programmers who really understand systems level issues and there
were a lot of problems with the current programming languages; they weren’t
object-oriented, they didn’t have good memory management so you had problems with
debugging the software. They didn’t have security features built into them and you
have the problem today with every PC being a container for the next virus to come along.
They weren’t network-centric in their model, they were very large, very bloated kinds
of operating environments. We went out and created a very small, simple scaleable
operating environment and language environment in Java, and then we tied it into the
Internet. That was the greatest distribution mechanism. It was a rocket ship that we tied
ourselves to and have ridden the energy and the enthusiasm of the Internet and Intranet
marketplace. Originally, we thought this language was going to be used to build a system
for a set-top box for interactive TV, you know, video on demand, five thousand channels or
whatever on every desktop, for every TV. That market did not take off like the Internet,
so we just re-targeted the technology to the Internet and got everybody to license to
technology and made the interfaces open, and hence you see the wildest and craziest
success story I’ve ever seen with the Java technology out there on the marketplace.
Question 5
And now Netscape, IBM, Compaq are all using Java under license. What kind of barrier does
this represent against Microsoft?
Answer
SUN is not in the business of putting up barriers to Microsoft. Our real goal is to really
provide value to the customer. And I think the customer is frustrated with very difficult
to use client environments, very difficult to deal with NT or Windows 95 as an operating
system; ease-of-use and compatibility on the PC is a myth. It’s very complicated,
very difficult. Anybody out there who has ever tried to assemble a PC, hook up a printer,
create a document and print it out at their home will understand how difficult this
environment really is. What we’ve been trying to do is solve the user administration,
the software distribution issues, the security aspects and the total cost of ownership of
getting access to the network and hence Java, the Java station or the Java computer in
terms of concepts. The NC are a way to go at all of these really difficult issues that the
PC has not and will not be able to solve as we move forward, so it’s a new style of
computing, a new effort. It has nothing to do with Microsoft other than trying to solve
some of the user problems that the current environment has created.
Question 6
But looking at the next five years, what do you expect from NC computers?
Answer
I hate to predict. We’ll probably do the same thing that Microsoft always does and
say that we have absolutely, wildly exceeded our most aggressive expectations on all
products at all times forever. Just make sure that everybody writes up that it exceeds our
expectations. For us to predict and then not exceed, that would be very bad, so let’s
just say we exceeded our expectations.
Question 7
What do you think about the cellular telephone with multimedia possibilities of
communication and connection. Would this be a market in the future?
Answer
I believe Java will be embedded in many of the organiser cell phone nomadic devices that
you see coming onto the market over the next few years. It makes sense; it’s already
been embedded in telephone handsets - Nortel has a screen-based Java phone - and moving
that to the cellular environment is the next step. We’ve actually seen a combination
clamshell organiser and cellphone all in one - in one device - that will be on the market
very soon. So these are the target markets for Java.
Question 8
And does SUN already have agreements, licenses with Telecom or in Europe or elsewhere?
Answer
The telecommunications marketplace is our largest single marketplace. UNIX is the language
of choice in the telecommunications arena, so we have a very good stronghold and
we’re working very closely with a whole bunch of the telco service providers around
the world starting with the AT&Ts and MCIs, including the Baby Bells and all of the
regional and international service providers. We work with all of them from NTT to Telecom
Italia to Erikson and all of the people involved in that business. The network is the
computer; we need the network and the telcos provide the network component of it so we
have a very complementary and synergistic business relationship with just about all of the
major telco suppliers.
Question 9
Last August venture capital put US$100 million on Java research. What kind of application
will come from this investment and how many companies, how many people in software are
working on Java?
Answer
I don’t know many software developers who are not writing in Java now. Maybe I have a
narrow view or I don’t see the average software developer, but today software
developers if they want to be writing interesting next generation applications are writing
them in Java. There are almost no new software start-ups that are not targeted at
Java-based software. In fact, I know very few new start-ups that are saying: No,
we’re going to write in C or C++ or Visual Basic. They’re all saying: we want
money, we want to go and start a company and we’re writing our software application
in Java. That’s the way to get venture capital money because the venture community
certainly has understood that the future is in Java-based software as we move forward.
What applications ? You name it, they’ll be building it. Every market and every
opportunity is ripe for a Java-based application. I think it’ll be an interesting
challenge for the installed legacy software developers today to react and compete with the
whole new wave of Java-based developments that’ll be hitting the market.
Question 10
But where and how exactly will you make money with Java?
Answer
Different people make money in many different ways. It’s like asking" How do you
make money in English? There are so many ways to make money in English and Java is a
language. You can build Java chips, you can build Java operating systems, Java compilers,
Java development tools, Java operating systems, Java browsers, Java computers, Java
servers, Java network management, Java consulting and training and education and service
and support. You can fundamentally - and SUN is doing that - make money in all kinds of
products, not just Java applications; there’s many, many different ways to make money
with Java.
Question 11
And because SUN is also a chip maker, is a Java chip coming?
Answer
Absolutely. We’ve announced the micro-Java and pico-Java environments. There are
dedicated microprocessors that are targeted at making Java applets go very, very fast.
They don’t run regular operating systems, they run the Java virtual machine and
therefore make Java applets go very fast for a very low cost and very low power. We
believe these are going to be very attractive devices for use inside of telephones and
game machines, set-top boxes, nomadic devices and embedded environments.
Question 12
And because one of the expectations from Internet is multimedia on-line, multimedia also
with video, what kinds of contributions can Java give to multimedia on-line?
Answer
What Java can do is fundamentally make media content that’s developed on the net and
executable on every and any machine. If you create something today in Apple format, it
only runs on Apple, or in Windows format, it only runs on Windows machines. If you create,
using the Java media APIs, you have an applet, a multimedia applet and content stream that
can be viewed and dealt with and manipulated and managed and handled on any computer that
runs those Java APIs, which includes everything, the Windows environment, the Macintosh
environment, the Novell, the UNIX, the NC, the IBM environment, Navigator, you name it.
And the beauty of this is that you can create the multimedia content and be guaranteed
that it will work everywhere.
Question 13
And what is your opinion about the browser war? A lot of attention was dedicated this
summer to the browser war between Microsoft and Netscape. Is this a false problem or is it
something important for the net?
Answer
It was obviously a slow summer for the news, as far as I could tell, and I don’t
necessarily think that the browser matters. I think what matters is what content format
you use to format your e-mail, I suggest ASCII. To publish your information, I suggest
HTML and to write your applications, I suggest Java. The world is busy putting their
information in proprietary content like Word or Excel or into proprietary content like
Visual Basic, where it can only run on a Windows environment. We suggest ASCII, HTML and
Java so that you can make your content available to any and everybody in every computer
out there. I think that’s the more interesting issue, not which browser has which
feature. These huge, full-featured browsers are necessarily productivity tools,
they’re again getting into the activity generation world.
Question 14
Larry Elision yesterday said that the browser has no future. Do you agree?
Answer
I’m not a visionary. I can’t predict the future and I don’t pretend to. I
think Netscape and Microsoft are pouring a lot of money into technologies that don’t
necessarily add a lot of value to the user, that is the sustainable environment in the
long term, but that doesn’t mean that they will continue to do what they’re
doing in the future. So who is to say what will happen?
Question 15
Another new phenomenon for general people is the discovery of how much the Web is used
inside the business environment. Can you explain the concept of Intranet and the future of
Intranet? What kind of business is it for you?
Answer
Companies are finding that an Intranet is actually a much more effective way of
communicating; rather than typing up a word document, printing it out, putting it in inner
company mail, you just type up a quick little ASCII e-mail and you send it to your friend,
instead of doing voice mail, which you can’t print out, you can’t edit, you send
it in ASCII e-mail and people can deal with that. People are finding that if you want to
publish a document inside your company, you don’t get Word, create this fancy
document and then print out a whole bunch of copies and then send it around to everybody
because it’s out of date before it even hits their desk. Now they’re publishing
using HTML and Web-based technologies and surfing that with browsers. People are finding
that they can use their Intranet distributed software also. You don’t send floppies
to every desk. You just put a copy of the application on a central corporate server and
download that application to users who need it. This is using the power of the network and
the power of the Web-based technologies to create a much more efficient environment. The
name that everybody has given it is the Intranet, and SUN has really focused on these
corporate networks or the Intranet and become the leader in technology for the Intranet.
Question 16
Do you think Bill Gates will be a strong competitor next year on the Intranet market?
Answer
Potentially. But the market is very different than selling PCs to the consumer market or
selling PCs to run spreadsheets and word processors. It’s a market of providing value
and productivity and improvements to the corporation as opposed to providing activities
for the user.
Question 17
What’s the value of this Intranet market for the server and for the software?
Answer
Unlimited. I couldn’t put a number on it. You’d have to go ask the research
firms, who never know anyhow, but they get paid money to go do that. I don’t do that.
They never know. It’s all a big guess.
Question 18
Two final questions. What do you worry about for the future of Internet? The traffic, the
bandwidth? What kind of problem will there be in the future of Internet with so many
people coming on the Net?
Answer
I don’t have any worries. The beauty of the Internet is that every time they put up
another road it gets filled up immediately, which is a wonderful leading economic
indicator of demand for Sun’s products. I would get very nervous if I was in the
road-building business, if when I built a road, nobody drove on it, because people are
going to stop building roads. What happens with the Internet is that every time we put up
a new highway or a new street or a new road, it gets immediately filled. That says we have
insatiable demand for our networking products. That’s good news, that’s
wonderful. I couldn’t be more excited about it. It’s very, very good for a
company providing the equipment for the information superhighway.
Question 19
Maybe it’s faster inside companies, but for a single user at home there is a long
waiting time, so what can be done to make Internet faster? Do we need cable or fibre
optics?
Answer
First of all, we probably need activities that are worth doing. Second, you probably need
to charge some money for Internet access and the pricing models have to be re-evaluated.
And thirdly, I would not bet against bandwidth. Bandwidth will come to your home. ISDN,
ASDL, the cable modem, the cellular and satellite connections into the home, fibre, all
the rest of it are all moving forward very aggressively. The amount of gigabit miles being
installed in Europe is amazing and as deregulation moves forward and the competition
starts to get established, you’ll see lots of money and lots of new energy put into
growing the network, where it goes, how far it goes and how fast it goes.
Question 20
So do you think that in the next three years there will be a real strong multimedia flow
on Internet also for entertainment?
Answer
Yes, but never as aggressive as people want it to be but always far more aggressive over a
longer period of time than they thought. It always moves slower in the short term than you
can believe and far faster in the long term than you ever thought possible. That’s
just the way technology works.
Question 21
A final question. Your company is based in Silicon Valley. Why is Silicon Valley so
special and why is it pushing the technology all over the world?
Answer
I think it’s the weather. It’s really nice, it’s wonderful, it’s a
beautiful place to live, and people who have a choice like to choose to live in the Bay
area. There’s Stanford University, there’s the San Jose Sharks hockey team, we
have everything now.
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